Episode Transcript
[00:00:08] Speaker A: Shadows whisper secrets unknown Reflections lost in time Shown shifting light of what's to be Yearning for truth inside of me I have called it I'll allow it Let it be Set the author free.
[00:00:35] Speaker B: We are all storytellers. Every day, with every choice, we add a new line to the narrative of our lives.
Welcome to Part two, the Transformation.
I am Jeanette Dunlop, author of Rewrite youe Story and my book of mantras, presenting another NETI collection, the Other U Podcast, where curiosity rediscovers the version of you that's been buried under roles and routines and expectations.
The other you that still dreams, still feels, and still believes in more.
Alongside your hosts, Ben Jenkins and Sarah Michaels, we'll talk about real change, mindset resets, and how to build a life that feels like yours again.
Each episode invites you to pause, reflect, and reconnect with practical tools for confidence, purpose and emotional balance.
So take a breath, open your heart, and step into a conversation designed to remind you you are not bound by yesterday. You are free to create the other you.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: I have called it. I'll allow it. Let it be.
Set the author free.
I am authentic. I am gross.
[00:02:01] Speaker C: Ever left a critical meeting or maybe just a chat with a friend feeling completely unheard?
[00:02:05] Speaker D: Oh, yeah.
[00:02:06] Speaker C: Or, you know, you walk away realizing you misunderstood the entire point.
[00:02:10] Speaker D: Definitely. Or maybe you just spent like 10 minutes politely waiting for your turn to.
[00:02:15] Speaker C: Talk and forgetting half of what they actually said in the process.
Happens to me all the time.
[00:02:20] Speaker D: That feeling, that kind of conversational friction or disconnect, that's exactly what we're here to unpack today.
[00:02:26] Speaker C: Right.
[00:02:26] Speaker D: We want to go beyond just hearing words. Our mission in this deep dive is really to look at interpersonal communication theory, assertiveness techniques, personality models, all that good stuff.
[00:02:40] Speaker C: We're aiming to give you, the listener, a sort of blueprint for strategic engagement.
[00:02:45] Speaker D: Exactly. By identifying core communication and really, crucially, listening styles. So you can stop just reacting and actually start, you know, strategically adjusting your approach.
[00:02:55] Speaker C: And we've dug into a lot of sources for this. Everything from like, the classics like Dale Carnegie to more modern behavioral assessments.
[00:03:03] Speaker D: Think of this as your essential shortcut for navigating those tricky, maybe high stakes interactions.
[00:03:08] Speaker C: Okay, so where do we start?
[00:03:10] Speaker D: We start with a really fundamental concept. The research hammers listening style. It's much more than just hearing. It's defined as a set of attitudes and beliefs about listening.
[00:03:21] Speaker C: Attitudes and beliefs.
[00:03:22] Speaker D: Okay, we all have our default settings. Right?
[00:03:24] Speaker C: Right.
[00:03:25] Speaker D: But the path to real communication competence.
It's about learning to recognize your style and then adjust it to fit the person and the situation in front of you.
[00:03:36] Speaker C: Okay, so let's start right there. A quick check for you listening right now. In your last conversation, were you genuinely listening to understand or were you just.
[00:03:45] Speaker D: Sort of internally rehearsing your defense or planning what brilliant thing you're going to say next?
[00:03:52] Speaker C: Yeah, called out. We've all been caught in that, haven't we?
[00:03:54] Speaker D: Absolutely. I had this moment recently where I realized I was so busy crafting my comeback that I like completely missed the nuance in what the other person was saying. It's. It's tough to admit sometimes we spend.
[00:04:05] Speaker C: So much energy just formulating our own thoughts, we lose their thread totally.
[00:04:09] Speaker D: So to shift from that passive kind of self centered hearing to proper active listening, the sources really stress three non negotiable habits. Okay, what was number one first one full attention. And this is non negotiable, but it's the one people often well fudge.
[00:04:28] Speaker C: How so?
[00:04:29] Speaker D: It's more than just making eye contact. The sources are pretty clear on this. Devices need to be away, like face down off the table. And yeah, that smartwatch buzzing on your wrist, that counts as a distraction even.
[00:04:41] Speaker C: If you ignore it.
[00:04:42] Speaker D: Yeah, because even ignoring it takes a fraction of your brain power away from the speaker. You have to signal with your whole posture, your presence that you are trul there.
[00:04:51] Speaker C: What if your mind just wanders, you know, thinking about email or dinner?
[00:04:56] Speaker D: Mental checklist. Try the clouds passing analogy. Seriously, Clouds passing? Yeah, you mentally label the distraction. Ah, email, thought, acknowledge it, and then just imagine it floating away like a cloud. It sounds a bit zen maybe. Okay, but it gives you a tool to quickly bring your focus back to what they just said without getting totally sidetracked.
[00:05:14] Speaker C: Okay, focus locked in. What's next?
[00:05:17] Speaker D: Next you need to prove you actually heard them. And that's where reflective listening comes in.
Paraphrasing, mirroring.
[00:05:25] Speaker C: So saying something like. Okay, so what I'm hearing is exactly.
[00:05:28] Speaker D: What I think you're saying is that the deadline shift cost frustration because the budget wasn't approved yet. Is that right?
[00:05:33] Speaker C: It sounds simple, but yeah, I can see how powerful that is.
[00:05:36] Speaker D: Oh, it's critical. One source called it a necessary speed bump that prevents head on collisions.
[00:05:42] Speaker C: Huh. I like that.
[00:05:43] Speaker D: Because you confirm you got it right before you react, it stops you arguing against a point they never actually intended to make. Prevents that immediate escalation.
[00:05:52] Speaker C: Okay, good one.
[00:05:53] Speaker D: And the third habit, Better questions we have to move beyond just like simple agreement or those closed yes, no questions.
[00:06:00] Speaker C: Right. Instead of did that go badly, ask What?
[00:06:03] Speaker D: Ask something open ended that invites more story, more feeling. What felt most frustrating about that moment or how did that land for you?
[00:06:12] Speaker C: You mentioned the classic what else.
[00:06:13] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. Never underestimate what else. It's amazing how often the real issue, the core thing, comes out second or third.
[00:06:21] Speaker C: Why is that?
[00:06:22] Speaker D: Well, psychologically, sometimes people need to sort of clear their throat first. Right. Get the minor complaints out before they feel safe enough or encouraged enough to share the deeper, maybe more vulnerable point.
[00:06:34] Speaker C: Makes sense.
All of this really seems to connect back to that timeless advice from Dale Carnegie.
[00:06:41] Speaker D: Absolutely. His whole thing about building influence and trust by being genuinely interested in other people.
[00:06:46] Speaker C: It's not about manipulation. It's about making them feel valued. Understood.
[00:06:51] Speaker D: Right. The core principle holds. Be a good listener. Encourage others to talk about themselves. It works.
[00:06:56] Speaker C: Okay, so we've got the Active Listening Foundation.
But you mentioned people listen differently.
[00:07:00] Speaker D: Exactly. Building on that active base. We need to get that. Not everyone processes information the same way. Researchers Watson, Barker and Weaver iii, they identified four distinct styles.
[00:07:13] Speaker C: Four styles.
[00:07:14] Speaker D: And while we usually have like a dominant style, they're really competent communicators. They learn to flex depending on who they're talking.
[00:07:21] Speaker C: So let's break them down. What's the first one?
[00:07:23] Speaker D: First up, the people oriented listener.
[00:07:26] Speaker C: Okay, this is friendly.
[00:07:27] Speaker D: They are. These are your natural relationship builders.
Their focus is primarily on emotions, feelings, moods. They're tuning into the relational vibe, not just the data points.
[00:07:37] Speaker C: So if someone's venting about a bad.
[00:07:39] Speaker D: Day, the people oriented listener leans in with deep empathy. They might say something like, wow, I can see how upsetting that must be for you. I hear the frustration. Tell me more about what's going on.
[00:07:49] Speaker C: Got it. So positives are obvious.
Care, non judgmental, great at building connections. Any downsides?
[00:07:58] Speaker D: Well, because they're so empathetic, they can sometimes get like, overly involved. They might absorb the speaker's emotional state, which can be pretty draining for them.
[00:08:06] Speaker C: Ah, yeah. So how do you talk to them effectively?
[00:08:09] Speaker D: Use stories, illustrations, frame things in terms of we and us to build that connection. Emotional examples work well.
[00:08:17] Speaker C: Okay, style number two.
[00:08:18] Speaker D: Next we have the action oriented listener.
[00:08:22] Speaker C: Action oriented. Sounds like they want to get stuff done.
[00:08:25] Speaker A: Bingo.
[00:08:26] Speaker D: This style values clear, organized, error free messages. They're focused on efficiency, on the task. Their internal question is often. Okay, so what are we supposed to do about this?
[00:08:37] Speaker C: Give me an example.
[00:08:38] Speaker D: The sources use Tanika. When there's a conflict about chores, she skips the emotional back and forth and just jumps to the fix.
Okay, fine. I'll start doing the dishes. Three times a week. Problem solved, move on.
[00:08:49] Speaker C: Right. So they want clear directions. What annoys them?
[00:08:52] Speaker D: Rambling, burying the lead. They get impatient, might jump ahead, even finish your sentences for you if you're not getting to the point. So talking to them, keep it concise. Main points, three or fewer is ideal. Have a clear step by step plan ready. And interestingly, speak at a fairly rapid but controlled pace. They process quickly.
[00:09:10] Speaker C: Okay, action oriented. What's the third style?
[00:09:13] Speaker D: Third is the content oriented listener.
[00:09:15] Speaker C: Content. So details, Data.
[00:09:17] Speaker D: Precisely. These folks favor technical, complex, challenging information. They are the evaluators, the analysts in the conversation. They want to hear all the information, weigh the arguments, check the sources before they form a judgment.
[00:09:30] Speaker C: Ah, I know people like this. The vacation planner example. Arturo.
[00:09:34] Speaker D: Exactly. He's not happy with. It'll be fun. He needs reviews, cost comparisons, pros and cons, analysis before committing.
[00:09:42] Speaker C: They like the deep dive. They might even play devil's advocate. Right. Bring up the other side totally.
[00:09:46] Speaker D: Just to make sure all angles are covered. They value technical info, Complexity is welcome.
[00:09:51] Speaker C: But the downside, takes them ages to.
[00:09:53] Speaker D: Decide that and they can be overly detail oriented. Plus, their pointed questions, while meant to clarify, can sometimes intimidate people.
[00:10:02] Speaker C: So communicating with them requires what? Evidence?
[00:10:05] Speaker D: Yes. Use two sided arguments, provide hard, verifiable data, quote credible experts. Anecdotes won't cut it. They need proof.
[00:10:13] Speaker C: Got it. And the last one, the time oriented listener. How is that different from action oriented? They both sound impatient.
[00:10:20] Speaker D: Good question. There's a key difference. The time oriented listener's focus is pure efficiency against the clock. They want the speaker to get to the point quickly because their mind is on their schedule.
[00:10:31] Speaker C: Like an ER doctor.
[00:10:33] Speaker D: That's the classic extreme example. Yes. They have to process fast and move on. They can seem insensitive sometimes because the clock is the priority, not necessarily the relationship or digging into the details.
[00:10:44] Speaker C: So they might interrupt the story saying, look, need to wrap this up. Got a hard stop in five.
[00:10:48] Speaker D: Exactly that. So the distinction is action oriented wants solutions to the task. Time oriented wants the interaction to finish efficiently on schedule.
[00:10:59] Speaker C: Action is about what time is about when.
[00:11:01] Speaker D: Perfect summary. So the strategy for talking to a time oriented listener is simple. Ask up front how much time they have, respect the clock, and then get straight to the bottom line. Respect their time constraint above all else.
[00:11:13] Speaker C: Okay, understanding my own style is helpful. But you said mastery is about adapting to them. How do you figure out their style quickly?
[00:11:21] Speaker D: Right, that's the trick. You need to assess their dominant behavior in real time for a fun, kind of memorable Way to think about this. Let's look at the dope birds personality tool.
[00:11:31] Speaker C: Dope birds. Okay, I'm intrigued.
[00:11:34] Speaker D: It's just a simple framework. We can sort of map these birds onto bigger behavioral models like dsky, you know, dominance, influence, steadiness, conscientiousness. It gives us four main personalities.
[00:11:46] Speaker C: All right, let's meet the birds.
[00:11:47] Speaker D: First, the dove. Collaborative, gentle, seeks harmony. Think steadiness in dissy.
[00:11:53] Speaker C: Okay, how do they respond?
[00:11:55] Speaker D: They respond best to reassurance, safety, predictability.
Use we language. When you talk to a dove, slow down. Affirm the relationship. Explain how an idea benefits everyone. Avoid surprises.
[00:12:08] Speaker C: Got it. Dove seeks peace.
[00:12:10] Speaker D: Next, the owl. Analytical detail, focused. Careful. This aligns pretty well with conscientiousness. Or that content oriented listener we talked about.
[00:12:18] Speaker C: Wants the facts.
[00:12:19] Speaker D: Exactly. Responds to clarity. Data needs time to think. Given them agenda, they will read the fine print. So presenting to an owl, give specifics, background, methodology. Say something like, I've attached the data appendix. Maybe take the afternoon to review it before we chat. That shows respect for their process.
[00:12:35] Speaker C: Owl needs details. Okay.
[00:12:36] Speaker D: Third bird, the peacock. Expressive, energetic, big picture, focused. Think, influence and deceit.
[00:12:44] Speaker C: The showman.
[00:12:45] Speaker D: Huh. Maybe they respond to vision, recognition, engagement. They don't want to get bogged down in data. They want the exciting outcome, the shiny vision.
[00:12:55] Speaker C: So adapting for the peacock memes. Paint the picture.
[00:12:59] Speaker D: Paint a vibrant picture of success. Focus on the positive, change the impact, maybe even the recognition they'll get. Don't bore them with process. Tell them how great the end result will be.
[00:13:08] Speaker C: Tcock wants pizzazz. And the last one.
[00:13:11] Speaker D: Finally, the eagle. Decisive, Direct results driven. This is your dominance profile, aligning somewhat with the action oriented listener.
[00:13:18] Speaker C: Get straight to the point.
[00:13:19] Speaker D: Absolutely. Responds to brief points. Clear options, wants ownership. They lead with action. So when talking to an eagle, be brief. Channel your inner headline. Right. Get right to it. Give him option A. Option B stape the bottom line. The consequence of inaction. Propose immediate next steps, like budget's tight. Option A saves cash but takes longer. Option B is faster but cuts feature X. Which way do we go?
[00:13:42] Speaker C: Ego wants action and options. Okay. Dove, owl, peacock, eagle. A useful shorthand.
[00:13:48] Speaker D: Now, knowing styles is great, but when pressure hits, people often default into less helpful communication patterns.
Passive. Maybe passive aggressive or just plain aggressive.
[00:13:58] Speaker C: Wait. Fight or flight or freeze.
[00:13:59] Speaker D: Exactly. And the sources were really clear on this. The only truly constructive approach, the win win style, is assertive communication.
[00:14:07] Speaker C: Win, win. So I win, you win.
[00:14:09] Speaker D: That's the goal. Assertiveness isn't about attacking or being pushy. It's about confidently expressing your own thoughts, feelings and needs respectfully, while also respecting theirs. Standing up for yourself fairly.
[00:14:21] Speaker C: Okay, how do we do that? Practically?
[00:14:22] Speaker D: The key tool, the absolute workhorse here is the I statement.
[00:14:26] Speaker C: Ha. The classic I feel statement.
[00:14:29] Speaker D: Sort of, but it's broader. Especially if you tend to be, say, more people oriented or harmony seeking. You might default to we or wishy washy language to soften things. Assertiveness requires owning it with I.
[00:14:43] Speaker C: But honestly, don't I statements sometimes sound a bit robotic or formulaic? Especially if you're giving difficult feedback.
[00:14:51] Speaker D: That's a really common concern. A great point. And yeah, if delivered poorly, maybe. But the intent isn't robotic. It's about pure transparency.
[00:14:59] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:15:00] Speaker D: When you frame it right, it just removes ambiguity. It stops the other person having to guess what you need or think. It's about eliminating mind reading, not sounding like a machine. You take responsibility for your boundaries.
[00:15:11] Speaker C: So owning it, like I need 24 hours to review this or I'm available Tuesday at 10.
[00:15:16] Speaker D: Exactly. It reduces that passive resentment that builds up when needs aren't met. And it forces clarity.
[00:15:21] Speaker C: Okay, and you mentioned delivering a boundary in one breath. What's that structure?
[00:15:25] Speaker D: Yeah, it's a neat little formula for high pressure moments. Acknowledge + ask + next step. All smoothly run together.
[00:15:32] Speaker C: Give me an example.
[00:15:33] Speaker D: Okay, say someone needs something urgently. You could say, I appreciate the urgency and I know this project is critical. Acknowledge me.
However, I can realistically only deliver a draft by 3pm today. Ask state limit. The fully checked final will be ready tomorrow morning. Next step.
[00:15:51] Speaker C: So you validate their need, but clearly state your capacity and timeline precisely respects.
[00:15:56] Speaker D: Them, protects you non negotiable expectations set.
[00:15:59] Speaker C: Okay, what about actual conflict when things get heated.
[00:16:03] Speaker D: Right. When assertiveness meets resistance.
For those high pressure moments, we recommend a three step strategy to stay composed, stay above the line. Meaning non reactive. It's the USA method.
[00:16:13] Speaker C: Usa. Okay. What does that stand for?
[00:16:14] Speaker D: U is for understanding. S is for situation. A is for action.
[00:16:19] Speaker C: Okay, step one. Understanding.
[00:16:21] Speaker D: Your first job is just to listen without interrupting, even if they're upset. Then offer an empathy statement. Something like. Okay, I can see how that lack of communication would be really frustrating. I hear your concern.
[00:16:31] Speaker C: Just empathy. No apology yet?
[00:16:33] Speaker D: Not yet. The research is quite firm here. Focus purely on showing you understand their feeling. You've only heard their side, right?
Apologizing too early can sound like you're taking full blame before all facts are clear. You only apologize for your specific part later if needed.
[00:16:49] Speaker C: Got it. Empathize first. Then S for situation.
[00:16:53] Speaker D: Yes. Now you clearly calmly explain the facts from your perspective. No excuses, no blame, just okay, from our side, here's the sequence of events that led to the delay. Keep it objective, fact based, lay out the situation neutrally.
[00:17:07] Speaker C: And finally a for action.
[00:17:09] Speaker D: Provide a concrete immediate next step. And this is critical. Confirm a specific follow up time. Okay, here's what I'm going to do right now. I'm going to escalate this to my manager and I will call you back by 4pm today with an update.
[00:17:21] Speaker C: And you have to make that callback.
[00:17:22] Speaker D: Absolutely vital reliability rebuilds trust way faster than any apology. Even if the update is just. I'm still working on it. Haven't got the final answer yet. Hitting that promise callback time shows you're taking it seriously.
[00:17:33] Speaker C: Okay, we've covered a lot active listening styles, adapting, handling, conflict with words.
But what about everything else? The non verbal stuff.
[00:17:43] Speaker D: Ah yes, the unspoken message. We spent so much time on words, but often the channel beneath the words is shouting louder.
[00:17:50] Speaker C: If you ignore that, you're missing potentially half the story easily.
[00:17:54] Speaker D: The research consistently points to how much meaning gets conveyed non verbally. We need to actively tune into things like facial tension, little micro expressions that flash across the face, tone of voice, pacing. Definitely. And body orientation too. Like if someone starts angling their feet slightly away from you, even while saying polite things, that can signal disinterest or a desire to leave subtle cues.
[00:18:19] Speaker C: Okay. What if you catch yourself sending a negative cue? Like you suddenly realize you've crossed your arms tightly mid conversation?
[00:18:24] Speaker D: Good question. Don't just ignore it. Use the power of transparency.
[00:18:28] Speaker C: Meaning just cut.
[00:18:29] Speaker D: Kindly call the cue on yourself out loud.
[00:18:31] Speaker C: Really?
[00:18:32] Speaker D: Like what you could just say lightly. Huh. I notice I just crossed my arms there. I think I might be feeling a bit defensive about that last point. Let me just reset.
[00:18:40] Speaker C: Wow, that feels brave.
[00:18:41] Speaker D: It does. But that small moment of transparency, it instantly builds trust.
It shows self awareness and it stops the other person from potentially spinning a whole negative story in their head about why your arms are crossed. It just diffuses the tension.
Hattieoutro wow.
[00:18:57] Speaker C: Okay. We have covered a lot of ground today. A real deep dive from the basics of active listening through those four listening styles.
[00:19:08] Speaker D: People, action, content, time.
[00:19:10] Speaker C: Right. Then adapting using the dope birds as a quick guide.
[00:19:14] Speaker D: Dove, owl, peacock, eagle.
[00:19:17] Speaker C: Then getting strategic with assertiveness using those I statements and the USA method for.
[00:19:22] Speaker D: Conflict understanding, situation action plus tuning into the nonverbals.
[00:19:27] Speaker C: So connecting all these dots. I'm curious, did any of the research surprise you? Anything stand out?
[00:19:31] Speaker D: You know, there was one study we looked at that had this really interesting kind of paradoxical finding. Yeah, they trained a team extensively in all these communication styles, right? Active listening adaptations. The works.
And after the training, the team members actually reported feeling less confident that they knew how to communicate effectively with their teammates than they did before.
[00:19:52] Speaker C: Wait, what?
Learning more made them feel less confident? That seems backward, doesn't it?
[00:19:57] Speaker D: But think about suggests that true communication mastery isn't about feeling like you have all the answers.
It's more about realizing the profound depth of human individuality.
Understanding the styles makes you realize just how different people are and how much constant mindful adaptation is truly required.
[00:20:18] Speaker C: Ah, so the knowledge reveals the complexity. It's not a simple checklist.
[00:20:22] Speaker D: Exactly. Communication is never a finished course. You can just pass. It's an ongoing practice.
[00:20:27] Speaker C: So K the challenge for everyone listening.
[00:20:29] Speaker D: Today though, don't try to implement everything at once. That's overwhelming. Just pick one tool from today. Maybe it's asking one better open ended question in your next chat, or crafting one clearer I statement to set a boundary. Or consciously trying to adapt your speed or detail level based on who you think you're talking to. Are they more owl or. Or peacock?
[00:20:49] Speaker C: Just one small thing.
[00:20:50] Speaker D: Just one. Apply it today. The skill really only grows in the doing and the practice.
[00:20:55] Speaker C: Brilliant. A great place to leave it.
[00:20:57] Speaker D: Thanks for joining us for this deep dive.
[00:20:58] Speaker C: See you next time.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: Through the quiet I feel the spark guiding me out of the endless dark Every scar becomes a say.
[00:21:21] Speaker B: You've just listened to another episode of the Other your with Ben and Sarah. Thank you for your insights and for sharing this chapter. I'm Jeanette Dunlop and I truly hope this week is your week for curiosity, vision and choice to set the author free.
So if this episode spoke to you, share it with someone rewriting their own story.
Subscribe to the Other your and follow for more transformative conversations.
Join our community on Nettie's Facebook page and hashtag rewriteyourstory and also tag myself Ennette Dunlop to share your reflections.
Until next week, Keep writing and keep becoming.
[00:22:06] Speaker A: I have called it. I'll allow it. Let it be.
Set the author free.
I am authentic. I am growth. Set the author free. Set the author free. Set the author free. It's now up to me. Set the author free.
